D4 vs Bzrk (01 June)

hmmm

I watched a saihl game the other night and there was a tauren, i think it was mrassman... it was gg.

I think the tauren is way too OP, id ban him in every clannie. His stomps range is too far, its stun duration is too long, his ultis range is rediculasly far (the range in which you need to be to get pulled to the center after it expodes and the range it spans accross the map), I think his ancestoral spirit does too mucn damage and i think his base ms is too much. I was speaking to blizzy about it and he agreed.

I dont see how its easy to counter him either. When I watched i t was either mrassman or his brother playing it, i cant remember. But i remember it was insane. They where against blizzy and scant, cant remeber the other players.

Thankfully I haven't got to verse him yet in a clanny, cause I can imagine how imba he might be in the right hands (with team coordination).

Yea I would honestly say he's the most OP hero at the moment.

Agreed, we played a clanny last night and landed Tauren.
Lane was Lion and Tauren. 1st blood, and a lot more where that came from. People were just falling. Lane him with a stunner and it's gg.

I sound like a broken record when saying this but lane him with kunkka... You can basically decide when to kill someone and just do it. Kunkka torrents, tc images and stuns... then kunkka can follow up with a tidebringer and tc hits once with huge damage... QQ

sounds easy in practice and could work,but...

both torrent and tauren stun are area of effect and not targeted, thus both have a chance to miss.

Taurens stun should not be hard to avoid by a decent player, also you can see when Kunkka casts torrent, and a good player will watch for the animation and move when he sees it.

Tauren and kunkka are both melee, you will almost never see a dual melee lane in a pro clannie and there's a reason for that. A dual stun lane, eg sandking/lion will own any dual melee lane (provided they not noob ofc
.

Where as imagine a rhasta/lion/cm + tauren lane. Targeted, ranged stun ftw.

Another thing to mention is never put 2 carry/ semi carry heroes in a lane together, the last thing you want are your carries competing for creeps.

bt Rocka, i disagree with you calling Taurean a carry or semi-carry. In mt opinion in a clanny if used, he shud be pure support to make sure the team battles go your way. Could even help out with the warding

It's pretty easy to land a torrent with kunkka... wait for some creep to be on low life so the opponents move to last hit and cast. They wont be watching you and also it keeps them still. It's neuroscience that got made me thinking of this... although you're in their FOV, the human brain only processes 20% of what the eyes see, so if their brain is concentrating on a last hit then you've got him. Especially last hitting catapults - that's really funny. Let's say though, for argument's sake, that only half your torrents hit... once the person is hit with one there is no way they can dodge tc's stun = gg.

Trust me though... kunkka and tc will outlane anyone provided they're aggressive enough. There is no combo that can outmatch them in pure firepower and any fight that happens in the lane will come out with kunkka and tc on top (from level 2 that is). If you can keep harrassers scared they wont try anything... and once you get to level 4 each it's over for your opponents because at that point if kunkka lands one torrent that's it. I wont even get started on level 6... torrent, ancient spirit, echo stomp, boat, tidebringer, tc ulti... bye bye.

I suppose the only way to prove it though is to show you we have to do it if we get the opportunity... you'll laugh at its overpoweredness.

There are alot of counter combos...... For 1, and this is not recommended cus bane is really a solo hero, but a bane axe lane wud dominate, with the sleep of bane taking either Kunkka or tc out of the fight immediately, then picking off the next one easy as pie...

A Kotl-veno would also control the lane without any real issues

Bane and axe is as easy as the rest :3

It's as simple as staying away from axe. With this in mind, let's say bane sleeps one of them then the other can just back away from axe's berserker's call (they can't attack the sleeping target)... then the other (sleeping) is isolated and taking some hits from counter helix - assuming creeps are there - but the non-sleeped one can easily torrent or echo stomp to save him once the sleep is over. Axe will be forced to berserker only on of them because kunkka/tc will start to run when he wakes up (taking a bane sap thingy - but they're both strength so it's not too bad). At worst he'll make it out with red hp, which he deserves for getting into that situation in the first place.

This keeps going till level two or three, bane is a bit harassed from tidebringer and ancestral spririt (both longer range than his heal) where kunkka + tc initiate from an uncounterable distance away and kill him, or at least push him out the lane.

kotl and veno are really squishy though, I dont think they'd last very long :S I mean given some aggression from tc/kunkka kotl could back off and start an illuminate... at that point running would mean death for tc or kunkka given veno's poison and slow. TBH veno would be dead before the illuminate goes off (kunkka or ts might still die). That's why kunkka/tc would have to play it safe as usual... lose out on some CS for now but as soon as they've harrassed a bit and they're level 4/5 it's over for veno/kotl. Ancestral spirit is one of the longest spells in the game, also kunkka can torrent and then tidebringer (see me doing it in our last game) and get out before veno/kotl can do anything.

Again though, this will have to be proven in practice.

Theoretically though it's good to have a ranged in the lane etc, but keep in mind kunkka can solo and tc is a new hero i.e. usual theory doesnt apply to these two. I've seen kunkka out-solo every single hero... the heroes that are a threat to him damage-wise just dont have the hp to back it up.

dude....its easy to dodge tidebringer...only noobs let it hit them......Good clans will avoid taking the aoe hits quite easily

Easier said in theory, if you've been torrented then you cant dodge it. Also kunkka knows you're going to try dodge it and will try his own tricks. If kunkka can predict when you're going to try last hit etc he can move in advance etc. Obviously like one in three will hit maybe on a good day (without torrent)... but that's life